Episode 3

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Published on:

24th Apr 2026

Believing Your Way Into Greatness with Tremale Delano

In this powerful episode of DunnWise Perspectives, Doris sits down with Tremale Delano to explore a story of resilience, identity, and the unexpected paths that shape who we become.

Tremale shares his journey from being passed through the foster care system in Los Angeles to building a successful career in construction and real estate management. Raised by a remarkable foster mother who believed deeply in the potential of every child, he was taught early on that his circumstances did not define his future.

But what makes this story truly unforgettable is the belief that drove him for years—that his biological father was a successful attorney who wanted nothing to do with him. That belief fueled his ambition, his work ethic, and his desire to prove something bigger.

Until he discovered… it wasn’t true.

In this conversation, Tremale opens up about:

  • Growing up in foster care and the impact of unconditional belief
  • The role of forgiveness in shaping his mindset
  • How a powerful—but inaccurate—story drove his success
  • What happened when that story unraveled
  • Why life isn’t black and white—and how perspective changes everything
  • The mindset shift from “one path” to discovering new doors

This episode is a reminder that even the stories we question—or outgrow—can still serve a purpose. And sometimes, the path we didn’t plan leads exactly where we’re meant to go.

Key Takeaway

  • Your beginnings don’t determine your destination
  • Beliefs—true or not—can shape your trajectory
  • Mindset isn’t about avoiding setbacks, but reframing them
  • When one door closes, another may already be open—you just have to look
  • Life is less about certainty and more about perspective

About Tremale Delano

Tremale Delano is a storyteller who takes his audiences on a riveting journey of discovery, using cinematic storytelling and honest reflections to foster transformative thinking. His signature style has been shaped, in part, by competing in the annual Toastmasters International Speech Contest, where he most recently advanced as a semifinalist in the 2024 World Championship of Public Speaking. With a degree in architecture and nearly two decades of experience in commercial construction management, Tremale uses his unique builder’s mindset to bring conceptual ideas to life.

Connect with Tremale

Connect with Doris

Want to Be a Guest?

Have a story of resilience, reinvention, or overcoming a challenge? I’d love to hear from you.

👉 Submit your story here: https://forms.gle/gJWpVcsZ5wTwfAgSA

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to Dun Wise Perspectives,

a podcast about stories of

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resilience and shifting mindsets.

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I'm your host, Doris Dunn.

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My guests are leaders, entrepreneurs,

and everyday people who've navigated

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change, faced uncertainty, and

discovered new ways of thinking when

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life didn't go according to plan.

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If you're navigating a season of

change, feeling stuck or simply

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curious about how small mindset

shifts can lead to meaningful

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progress, you're in the right place.

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Let's get started.

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I.

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Doris: Welcome everybody to

another episode of DunnWise

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Perspectives, and today we have a

very special guest, Tramale Delano

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that I met through Toastmasters.

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And if you know anything about me,

I'm a huge fan of Toastmasters.

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I am the founder of the Franklin

Toastmasters in Franklin, Tennessee

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that began in the late 1990s.

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And I did leave the Franklin Toastmasters

and joined one in California, and then

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when I came back to Tennessee a few years

ago, I rejoined Franklin Toastmaster,

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and I've had the pleasure of hearing

Tramalel speak a number of times,

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and Tramalel is a fantastic speaker.

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And last year he competed in

the international speech contest

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and went quite a long way and

he is competing again in:

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And I have a pretty sneaky suspicion.

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I don't have a crystal ball, but I think

he's gonna go really far again this year.

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And he is again, an excellent speaker and.

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He not only is an excellent speaker,

but his stories are impactful.

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They draw you in.

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The rest of the world goes away

when Tramalel tells a story.

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And the last speech that he gave, which

is, the international speech contest,

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he's gonna go a long way with that speech.

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But when he shared that speech and.

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His background, I thought I

need to have him on the podcast.

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He has an incredible story and

incredible shift in mindset from

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the very, from very early age.

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That is something that everyone

needs to hear and so I am so excited

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to have Tramalel on the show today.

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Welcome, Tramalel.

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Can you share a little

bit about who you are?

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Just tell us a little bit about you.

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Tremale: Sure.

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Thanks Doris.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I spent most of my life,

in Los Angeles, California.

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I was born and raised in California

and came out to Tennessee in:

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my background professionally by

trade, I was in architectural

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design and construction management.

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I went to school in Washington, DC

and then hiked, tilted back to la.

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Avoid the snow, so to speak.

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But yeah, that's still a

large part of what I do.

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Construction, real estate management.

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But, i've developed a passion for

storytelling in public speaking because

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it has gone hand in hand as I've had

a lot more time now being an adult

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to reflect on my life experiences.

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it's been a very useful tool

to be able to share my story

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with clarity and conviction.

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And so it's been very helpful

and that's why Toastmasters has

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been helpful for me as well.

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Doris: I hear architectural design

and if someone says, yes, I'm an

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architectural design, the first thought

is I'm sure that your mother or a father

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must have been an excellent architect.

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And that is probably where you got your

desire and you were following in your

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parents footsteps in architectural design.

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And that couldn't be

further from the truth.

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tell us a little bit about your

early childhood and some of the

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struggles that you had from early on.

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Tremale: Sure.

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Yeah.

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there there's one fact

about me that always.

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Reminds me of my experience and that

is that no picture of me prior to two

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years old, as far as I'm aware, exists.

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The earliest memories that I have that

are photographed right now are all two

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years and above, because between my

birth and the age of two, I was being

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passed around through the foster care

system around in Los Angeles County.

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So my birth mother unfortunately

and this is something that.

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Still isn't in the headlines today

with, opioid crisis and drugs.

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But unfortunately my mother got caught

up in that in the eighties and had

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a challenge with drug addiction.

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And so I was born during

her struggle with that.

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And so after six months

of caring for me she.

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basically relinquished her

parental rights to my aunt.

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And then again, my aunt relinquished

her parental rights six months later.

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So there was just this period of

every six months, it felt like my

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caretaker or my mom was, returning

me back to the store, so to speak.

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Doris: tell me, how could a six

month old be so much trouble?

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Tremale: I can only imagine.

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But look looking at some of the reports

that I have that give me a little bit of

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glimpse into the history apparently I.

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Had effects from my mom's

usage when I was in the womb.

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I believe the reports noted that I

had fecal fetal alcohol syndrome,

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and apparently the, I think the

chief characteristic was I was

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described as an insolvable kid.

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So apparently I would cry for three

to four hours at a time and there was

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nothing that could be done to console me.

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Some doctors,

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Doris: you were probably

going through withdrawals.

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Tremale: Some doctors had speculated

that was exactly as you mentioned

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going through withdrawals from

alcohol that was put placed in my

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bottle to calm me when I was younger.

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But yeah it's hard to make sense of it,

especially now that I have two kids.

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And so I had this crazy experience when

I held my daughter for the first time

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when she was two years old, because it

was the first time that I saw an image.

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Of what I must have looked like.

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'cause she looked fairly similar to me.

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And I remember holding her one day and

looking at her and thinking, who in the

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world could let this little angel go?

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Yeah.

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And so I had that moment Just

trying to make sense of it.

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But I've made peace with it.

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I understand it and I understand it

through the perspective of how it's

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helped me become the person I am

today, which has been a long journey.

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But it's been a worthwhile one.

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Doris: Wow.

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And you shared with me before we hit

record that you, you have had an on and

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off relationship with your mom and she

has tried to come back in your life.

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Tell me a little bit about

the forgiveness or the.

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The inability to forgive her, the ability

to forgive or how did your mind wrap

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itself around the fact that she left,

then she came back, she left again.

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How do you manage through that?

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Tremale: Sure.

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So my foster mother, Ruth tha

Holbert, that was her name, the woman

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who not only took me in, but five

other foster kids, high risk foster

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kids that no one really wanted.

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She was a very, principled person, a very

spiritual person, a very religious person.

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And so very early on when I was

younger, the concepts of forgiveness

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and acceptance were embedded within me.

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She didn't take the route of

trying to hide that I was hers.

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I don't know when I found out that I

was a foster kid, but as far back as

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I can remember, as a kid I've known.

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So sh it was very important for her.

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To let us know as early as it was

practical given our developmental

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state where we came from, but intercept

that and also say, by the way.

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I still expect greatness out

of you, just so you know.

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Doris: Yeah.

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Tremale: So it's almost as if she reached

forward and tried to take away the

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possibility of us finding out that later

in, in that sense of worthlessness, that

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you feel where that people who brought you

into this world and want you, it's almost

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like she wanted to get that outta the way.

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So she could do the heavy lifting, which

is getting us to believe in the idea.

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That we could become more so she helped

to instill those ideas and my, my

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birth mother was forbidden by court

order, ever having any contact with me.

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When I was very young.

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There was a hearing but I believe I was

around in the 11th grade where my mom

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Ruth, then Hobert, my foster mom, let me

know that she had received a voicemail.

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She had explained to me like, Hey,

by the way, she's not allowed,

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but I'm gonna leave it up to you.

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It is your choice.

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Do you want to call her back or do you

want to email back, or what have you?

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And on the basis she

raised me forgiveness.

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I was like, sure.

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And so I remember writing her this email.

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She later described it brought tears to

her eyes because I came right out with it.

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I forgive you, and this is

without me even knowing the story.

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I forgive you, God always has a

plan, 'cause again, raised with

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that line of thinking when I was

younger and that opened the door.

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But, we're all human.

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And ultimately after the adrenaline

rush of of a new experience, you

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start to get to know people and you

have to make a decision on, what is

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gonna best support your future growth.

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And so that's been something I've had

to wrestle with as my mom continues

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to wrestle with, the struggles of her

past, which continue to be ongoing.

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Doris: Yeah.

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Tremale: So it's a work

in progress, shall we say.

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Doris: So I wanna talk

about Ruth Ann for a minute.

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you said she took in five foster children

and it sounds like she six, including

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Tremale: me.

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Doris: Six.

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So five other fosters.

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So she was raising six

between the ages of what?

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Two to four ish?

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Tremale: As young as him.

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Infant Six months.

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Doris: Yeah, six months.

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Tremale: Younger.

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Younger.

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Doris: So really young kids.

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And she instilled in you this,

I expect greatness out of you.

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Do you think that she saw greatness

in each one of you, or she didn't

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really care what your background was?

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She just knew that there was

potential in every single child

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that was living under her roof.

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Tremale: it was the latter.

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My mom just believed in, in the

idea that everyone has potential.

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I don't care where you come from.

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If you were to look at our rap sheets,

but, and if, and if you even look at

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our life experiences, early on it, none

of it suggested that we would at all.

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Follow a trajectory because we came

with some pretty heavy baggage,

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but she just had this belief.

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She loved kids.

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She had daycare and, before us there

were many other foster kids that

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she had temporarily, for years.

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she's probably from a span of her life,

had 10, 12, 15 kids directly in her care.

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And then she had daycare, so she just had

this firm belief around what can happen

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when you instill love and care within a

kid that it can allow, someone to nourish.

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And she certainly tried to instill

that within us to the best she could.

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Doris: Where do you

think she got that from?

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Where did she learn that,

or, what made her so special?

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'cause you hear terrible things about.

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the foster system and foster

parents and some people doing it

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just for the money and obviously

this, that she did it differently.

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What made her so different and what

were other success stories besides you?

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Tremale: Sure.

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Yeah.

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It, I think it comes from her

deeply rooted spirituality.

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She saw this as her calling.

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To take the kids that no one thought

had a chance, and almost to show the

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world Hey, don't give up on these kids.

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And Hey, just so we're clear, I'm

gonna show you, I'm gonna give

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you the roadmap, so I'm gonna

take the kids nobody wants, right?

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And I'm gonna keep 'em even when they

break my heart over and over again.

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I'm gonna show them the power

of love and the power of

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commitment and consistency and.

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It wasn't just me, so my brother

Johnelle even in high school, he was

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considered a world renowned pianist.

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He was doing music concerts

all over the place, competed in

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international music competitions.

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In high school, but that was my mom.

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she put all of us in music lessons.

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Some took to things so that some of

the girls were in ballet piano lessons.

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So the arts were a big part of,

what she felt was important because

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it was a form of expression.

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My other sister went on to

college and nursing school.

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So a lot of us have had success

that kind of belie the standard

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trajectory of our peers.

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And I think it, a lot of it has to do

with the manner in which she raised us.

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And

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Doris: yeah,

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Tremale: I don't mean to understate

the difficulty with which it took

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for us to get to where we were but.

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It certainly stands out as a

differentiator when you reflect back

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Doris: Yeah.

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Tremale: The values that she instilled.

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Doris: I wanna talk about one of those

values, 'cause you shared earlier with

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me what happened when you and your

brother would get into a fight and

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the punishment that she instilled.

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And I love this story and I'd love for

you to share what your punishment was.

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Tremale: Yeah, so my mom is what I

would call an innovative punisher.

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She had some very unique methods

One of her go-tos was, some parents

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will have you write standards.

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She would often make me go write

pages and pages out of a dictionary.

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She'd make me find words and write

the definition of them on paper

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as an alternate form of standards.

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Make me go take the Bible and write

out pages and pages of Bible verses and

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come back and let's go talk about it.

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I don't want you to, I want you to

keep writing until your hand feels like

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it's gonna fall off, but the biggest

one is I remember one time me and my

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brother got into a pretty bad fight

and as punishment, she made us figure.

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out What bus we needed to take

to get to a library 30 minutes

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away in a whole other city.

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And we had to go together.

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We had to go find a book, read it,

write a book report, and we could not

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come back home until we had it in hand.

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And I remember that moment specifically

because we got lost so many times W e

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literally had to put our differences

aside and work as a team to try to

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figure out how to get back home, and

know In her grand wisdom of things.

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Yeah, I didn't just get a

book report out of that.

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I I got some way finding

navigational skills out of it too,

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Doris: oh, absolutely.

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Oh my goodness.

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So I wanted, so to call it

your architectural designer.

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And what inspired that?

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How did you go from, the foster care

system, you graduated from high school.

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you found yourself in college,

in Washington, dc What

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inspired architectural design?

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Tremale: I grew up in

South Central Los Angeles.

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A lot of the residents there often would

do their own home additions often, and

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so I happened to live next door to a

gentleman who was also a carpenter.

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And so there was something about.

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Buildings had always boggled my mind.

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It felt like magic.

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How can one day there be nothing there?

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And then all of a sudden there's

this structure standing there

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and the wind for the most part,

Los Angeles can't knock it down.

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It keeps you out of the weather.

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And it's a place called home.

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So it buildings were like a marble to me.

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And I remember one day, I was

watching him build something 'cause

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I would just ride my bike around the

neighborhood and just watch people build

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things for hours and get lost in it.

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One day I had the courage to go up

to him and I said, you know what?

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I had to be, I had to have been

in the seventh grade, sixth grade.

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I said, I want to be just like you

when I grew up, and he was a carpenter,

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and he came over to my house and

he sat on the porch next to me.

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he laughed and he said I'm very flattered,

but you don't want to be like me.

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Trust me.

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Let me tell you what you should do.

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What you should do is go be an architect.

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And what they do is they build

things, but on paper and.

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It'll be great for you.

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And the secret is when you turn

40, your knees will still work.

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So every, ever since I was there that

age, I decided that's what I wanted to do.

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So from literally around the sixth

grade, I knew what I wanted to do and,

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got it, got accepted into the School of

Architecture at Catholic University in

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Washington dc successful internships.

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But then just through all the

professional experience, I decided

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to take a intermediate track.

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And so instead of.

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Becoming a professional architect

and becoming a licensed architect, I

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pivoted into commercial construction

management, and so I became part

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of the teams that helped build the

buildings and manage the buildings,

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but not necessarily with my hands.

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Yeah,

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Doris: it's

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Tremale: the scheduling, the

budgeting the logistics of it all.

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I discovered that I had

a great passion in the.

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The dynamic nature of that experience.

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And that's what I have spent the last

20 years of my life primarily doing is

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bringing commercial projects to life.

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Doris: I love it.

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You said something earlier

that kind of stuck with me.

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You said something about

the building being a home.

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I wonder if there's some symbolism there

where you had a wonderful home and a

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wonderful foster mom that took care of

you, but I'm sure in the back of your

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mind there was a little bit of niggling

about, this is a wonderful home, but.

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I wanna build my own home, I

wanna build a home with a family.

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do you think that there's some

symbolism in this architectural design

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and this, looking at your neighbor

and seeing him build something and

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saying there's something magical about

it and the building becomes a home

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and the home is where the family is.

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And I just wonder if that somehow ties

together from a symbolism perspective

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and where you wound up making the

decision to, to start your career.

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Tremale: That's a great thought

for some additional reflection.

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I've actually never ever considered that.

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But there, there could be some

credits there, credence there to that.

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I, I was allowed to wonder, when I was a

kid, I was allowed to be a kid in, in a

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lot of different ways, and I think that.

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Letting that curiosity kind of

roam, starting with just playing

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with Legos and taking things apart.

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I got into so much trouble taking things

apart and trying to put 'em back together.

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Vacuum cleaners.

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One day I got it in my mind that I

was gonna take the motor out a vacuum

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cleaner and putting in my wagon,

and I was gonna make a go-kart.

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I want you to imagine how that

went ruined their vacuum cleaner.

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But I,

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Doris: it sounds like that sounds

like something my husband would do.

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Tremale: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I think that it was certainly

influenced by the environment

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that my foster mom created that

allowed me to just explore.

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And who knows, maybe the roots do lead

back to, at the end of the day, everyone

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wants a shelter, a place called home.

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And maybe that's probably a, a deeper,

concept that sort of resided within me,

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Doris: so tell me about the

speech that you're writing now.

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I, we, I know we spent a little bit

of time talking about your mom and

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the speech that I had the pleasure

of just listening to, talked a

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little bit about your dad and Okay.

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Spoiler alert.

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We, I know from the

speech that you thought.

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This one person was your father

and it inspired a lot of who you

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became, and later you discovered

that someone else was your father.

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Can you share a little bit about that?

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What inspired you knew you were

gonna be this one person because

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your dad was an attorney, right?

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And then when you were discovered

your dad was someone else what

356

:

process happened in your mind?

357

:

And then how did you keep your

original dad as part of who you are?

358

:

Tremale: Sure.

359

:

So growing up we talked a

little bit about my mom.

360

:

So the flip side is that my dad,

at least the man at the time that's

361

:

named on my birth certificate he

was married to another woman at

362

:

the time that, I was conceived.

363

:

And so the story that was told to me

very young is that while my foster mom.

364

:

And a lot of people around me

were aware of who my dad was.

365

:

He had legal advertisements

that played on tv.

366

:

His family was known personal injury,

I believe some type of in that

367

:

legal sense, and that legal sphere.

368

:

But it was made clear to me that they

didn't wanna have anything to do with me.

369

:

Forbidden fruit, I don't

fit in the profile.

370

:

And so from a very young age,

I knew about him, but there was

371

:

almost this deep resistance.

372

:

So when I found out that, my dad

was this brilliant attorney that

373

:

kind of stuck with me and my mom

went off and tell me, Hey, just so

374

:

you know, you come from brilliance.

375

:

Don't forget that, she'd remind me

in a bunch of different contexts and.

376

:

It almost became a rally cry for

me if they don't want me, I'm

377

:

gonna become so big one day that

they're gonna come looking for me.

378

:

there was this like dichotomy of I'm

gonna take your superpower, right?

379

:

Your brilliance that I inherited

you, didn't give it to me.

380

:

I have it, but I'm gonna use it to

become bigger than what you ever

381

:

thought, and so it was this thing where.

382

:

I found belief that I could become

something because of my background, my

383

:

history, who the people, I thought the man

who I thought was my dad, but also being

384

:

driven by this desire to prove them wrong.

385

:

And so there was this healthy, there

was like this partial acceptance of

386

:

what they gave me, but this rejection.

387

:

Of ever being, with them.

388

:

I imagined these moments where, I designed

this big skyscraper and my name is on it,

389

:

and they come to the grand opening and

they wanna shake my hand and I say, no.

390

:

I'm rejecting you now.

391

:

There's just those kind of kid fantasies.

392

:

And so I, that, that drove a lot, a large

part of my identity when I was younger.

393

:

And I certainly needed something

to drive me because I had a whole

394

:

bunch of educational challenges.

395

:

Dyslexic was placed in

special education classes.

396

:

To the point that, I was pretty

significantly behind in school and so

397

:

things clicked and life started to come

together through, a huge part of my

398

:

foster member supporting my development.

399

:

And my life was playing out just as.

400

:

I landed, I graduated, I found success.

401

:

I was building high rises,

not high rises that I owned,

402

:

but I was building high rises.

403

:

I got to a point where I was

building my own buildings mid-rise

404

:

buildings that were, that was

gonna put my daughter's name on.

405

:

So that fantasy that I have is a kid

was starting to come true until my wife.

406

:

Did something that kind of just blew

up my whole world and she told me that,

407

:

Hey, just so you know, I've been like

looking into your dad's family and I

408

:

know you don't want to, and I know I

ask you, but I saw an article about

409

:

like how your dad died and so that set

us off on this whole thing and then.

410

:

When she got pregnant with our first kid,

that made me completely start to rethink

411

:

my relationship with my past and my dad.

412

:

And, my wife's perspective was always,

maybe the story you told wasn't true.

413

:

Maybe they've evolved, maybe there's

younger cousins and brothers and sisters.

414

:

You never know.

415

:

I want our kid to, experience that.

416

:

Because I grew up on family.

417

:

My wife did.

418

:

Family was very important for her and

she didn't want me to be robbed of

419

:

that, and she wanted our future kid to

be robbed of that experience either.

420

:

And so COVID, COVID times, and it

did not take very long for me to.

421

:

Pierce through and find them.

422

:

It wasn't very hard with all the modern

technology and it turns out that I

423

:

found them and just as my wife had

explained or hoped they were accepting

424

:

and they wanted me to be a part of it.

425

:

And we did a DNA test on the same day

and it turned out that it wasn't true.

426

:

And so I had my whole life.

427

:

And it wasn't just this idea that

my dad's brilliance came from me.

428

:

It was this whole drive

of proving them wrong.

429

:

I didn't have anyone to prove wrong

anymore 'cause it wasn't true.

430

:

But my wife being the eternal

optimist that she is, she's Tramell,

431

:

do you know what this means?

432

:

No, it means your dad

might still be alive.

433

:

And I'm like, whoa.

434

:

She went on this journey for about

a year trying to figure it out.

435

:

And she found my real dad.

436

:

She did over the course of a year.

437

:

And it helped me resolve

some things about myself.

438

:

And I think the biggest thing that

this experience showed me is that Wow.

439

:

Okay, so I have to process this.

440

:

A lot of my advancement in life,

I attribute to the fact that my

441

:

dad gave me, gifted me certain

abilities and was driven by this

442

:

idea that my family didn't want me.

443

:

So I had this extra drive, but

it turned out to not be true.

444

:

And so I was trying to reconcile that

and at the end of the day, where I

445

:

landed at, was just an appreciation

that I am where I am today.

446

:

No matter how I got here, there

was this deep appreciation for a

447

:

moment that, wow, it's crazy that I

would not be here if not for those

448

:

misunderstandings and lies, right?

449

:

That I believed and it

completely changed my mindset.

450

:

To really start to look into this

concept that life is not black and white.

451

:

It's gray, it's messy.

452

:

It doesn't fit on neat little posters.

453

:

It, it's pages and pages of

contradictory information that

454

:

you have to take in as a whole.

455

:

But if you do that,

you'll be given a gift.

456

:

And that gift is a gift of

perspective and realizing that.

457

:

All of it came together

to make you who you are.

458

:

And so that's been a huge mind shift for

me mindset shift for me as I've grown.

459

:

Yeah.

460

:

Doris: the thing that's so interesting

about that story and that I think I

461

:

want our listeners to understand is

that the mind is incredibly powerful

462

:

and you can, especially if you.

463

:

Instill something in your children or

your foster children like you had in

464

:

your case, and everyone believed it.

465

:

They believed it so much

that you made it true.

466

:

It turned that, like you said,

if you didn't have that belief,

467

:

who knows where you'd be today?

468

:

Who knows what you would've believed?

469

:

I still strongly believe that your

foster mom would've still said,

470

:

you're destined for greatness.

471

:

She wouldn't have cared what your

history was because she had so much.

472

:

Belief in you, but there was still

a part of that story that made you

473

:

want to strive, made you want to

move forward, made you want to prove

474

:

something to the family that you

thought was your real family and.

475

:

That the mind is, oh, so incredibly

powerful that it can achieve things that

476

:

maybe other people think we can't achieve

or parts of us think we can't achieve.

477

:

And at the end of the

day, we can achieve it.

478

:

And I don't know if maybe you wanna speak

to that a little bit and you we spend a

479

:

little bit of time on mindset, but given

how you are today and the person that you

480

:

are today, how has mindset maybe shifted?

481

:

What your future could look like or

what you think, how you think about

482

:

mindset in the decisions that you make

today or how you raise your children.

483

:

Tremale: Sure.

484

:

Absolutely.

485

:

It's actually a little annoying

because I, it's almost like I've become

486

:

depression resistant, shall I say?

487

:

If that's a word.

488

:

Sure.

489

:

Doris: We'll, just we'll say it's a word.

490

:

Tremale: Yeah.

491

:

If it's a word, yeah.

492

:

even when I have moments of

extreme disappointment and

493

:

of things, disappointment

494

:

Doris: in yourself, or disappointment.

495

:

Tremale: Disappointment

in life in general, right?

496

:

I wanted this certain result.

497

:

I wanted to have this done by the

end of the year, or this really

498

:

bad thing just happened to me

in life, and it feels so unfair.

499

:

Why me?

500

:

Why me?

501

:

After the, the initial moments of that.

502

:

There is always this place that

comes to me that says, okay,

503

:

Tramale these doors have closed.

504

:

Where's the hidden door that just opened?

505

:

You gotta find it, right?

506

:

Doris: Yeah.

507

:

Tremale: And so my, I don't see the world

in this duality where it's either you made

508

:

it or you didn't, you won or you lost.

509

:

It's hey.

510

:

This door just slammed shut.

511

:

Look for the other door.

512

:

There's gotta be another door somewhere.

513

:

Doris: There's always another door.

514

:

Yes.

515

:

Tremale: That journey of where is it?

516

:

Where is it?

517

:

Is it, there's it there?

518

:

Is it in the ceiling?

519

:

Do I need to teleport outta here?

520

:

Can I teleport?

521

:

You, when you accept this idea that not

it's, I don't have the belief necessarily

522

:

that all things happen for a reason.

523

:

But I do think, I do

believe in cause and effect.

524

:

I believe that when one thing happens,

it causes something else to happen.

525

:

And your mindset is what allows you

to keep the story going and I, yeah,

526

:

Doris: the butter, the

butterfly effect, right?

527

:

Tremale: Sure.

528

:

Yeah.

529

:

So that's really been the biggest change

is that it's made me super curious to

530

:

make sure that I didn't miss anything.

531

:

Hey, am I looking at this the wrong way?

532

:

I know this is, this might be what I want,

or, like last year I really wanted to

533

:

speak to a bunch of different audiences,

but the speech that I wanted to give.

534

:

Here I am a year later, and I realize that

there's so much more depth to explore.

535

:

There's a better, bigger

story to tell, right?

536

:

You have that perspective.

537

:

You start to understand the life as

always, this work in progress and if you

538

:

can find a way to just enjoy that period

of improvement and your hopes are up,

539

:

your hopes are down, and then new hope.

540

:

You'll always be moving

forward in some way.

541

:

So that's probably been

the biggest shift for me.

542

:

Doris: I love that.

543

:

Tremale: And I didn't grow up like that.

544

:

I it was hard for me to not see

it that way 'cause it was very

545

:

kind of single track minded.

546

:

And this is my go.

547

:

I have to hit it.

548

:

Failure's not an option, I have to hit it.

549

:

So if I gotta run a hundred times, I'm

gonna run a hundred times and I'm gonna

550

:

hit my goal, now it's more like, all

right, I keep running into the wall.

551

:

Maybe I should look the

other way to see if,

552

:

Doris: yeah,

553

:

Tremale: this is where I should be going.

554

:

Doris: Kinda, yeah.

555

:

I love that,

556

:

a

557

:

Tremale: different type of commitment.

558

:

Doris: But I agree.

559

:

Everything has a cause and

effect, and I do the same thing.

560

:

I think about my past and did I

make wrong decisions in some ways.

561

:

And I realize, you know

what, every decision was made

562

:

for a reason, whether it.

563

:

It felt, or it feels today like what

if I had done something different?

564

:

I, I might not be here

speaking with you today.

565

:

If I had gone in any different

direction, again, that butterfly

566

:

effect, that tiny little flap of a

butterfly's wing can impact things

567

:

that we don't even know or understand.

568

:

And I think that we can try to

move forward in a positive way,

569

:

but I think that's a great analogy.

570

:

If you keep hitting the wall that

maybe that 90th time is realized that

571

:

maybe I do need to take another path.

572

:

Maybe the path that I thought

was really clear in front of me.

573

:

Isn't as clear and I need to

go find even that third door.

574

:

I know there is, and I don't remember who

said it, I read it in, in a book, but it

575

:

was by a, a Kathy Heller book, but she

was quoting someone else who talks about

576

:

the third door, where the first door

is where everyone standing in line and

577

:

you're waiting just imagined, trying to

get into a popular nightclub and you're at

578

:

the back of the line and you're watching

VIPs go in front of you and you're just.

579

:

Standing back there waiting and

hoping that you can get in the door

580

:

that you may never even get in.

581

:

And then there's a second door that

is a little less popular, but it's

582

:

still, you can get through that

door, but you people forget about the

583

:

third door that's hidden that maybe

you don't even realize is there.

584

:

And I think what you just talked about,

the analogy of finding a different door.

585

:

And don't try so hard towards something

that you think is the right path.

586

:

Maybe it is, maybe you do need to

just keep trying and plugging away,

587

:

but if you keep hitting a wall, maybe

try a different door or try a window.

588

:

Tremale: Absolutely.

589

:

I liken it to.

590

:

I'm a big, I love sweets, right?

591

:

So I love ice cream and I love

cookies, And the way I think

592

:

someone really explained it to me

is I you love ice cream, right?

593

:

Tramale?

594

:

Yes.

595

:

I love it.

596

:

I love chocolate ice cream.

597

:

But, have you ever had chocolate ice

cream with all these different toppings

598

:

and all these different flavors?

599

:

So it's really, you have in your

head what you think you like

600

:

until you see something that is.

601

:

More nuanced, more more ingrained

something more grand and it shifts you.

602

:

And then you start to think and

question yourself of do I want

603

:

this because it's what I'm destined

or do I want this because it's

604

:

the only thing I know right now.

605

:

And really giving yourself the grace to.

606

:

To acknowledge that maybe you don't

know everything there is about you.

607

:

Yeah.

608

:

And, finding out the rest is a journey.

609

:

So that, that's been a helpful

perspective for me to have as well.

610

:

Doris: Yeah, and obviously

we're all on a journey.

611

:

It doesn't matter how old or

how young we are, we're all on a

612

:

journey, this journey called life.

613

:

And I just, I wanna thank you so much,

Jamel, for sharing your story with me.

614

:

I think it's so powerful

and I am so happy.

615

:

That you are not one of the statistics.

616

:

I know we talked earlier about the

statistics of foster care children

617

:

and I wish we could wave a magic wand.

618

:

I wish we could do something to,

I wish we could have a thousand

619

:

Ruth Ann Halberts, and that's who

takes care of all the foster kids.

620

:

Is all the Ruth Anns out there.

621

:

And because we know that if a million

Ruth Anns took care of foster kids,

622

:

we wouldn't, it wouldn't be that

trail of foster care to prison and

623

:

some of the other paths that go on.

624

:

And I'm just so happy that

you had the mother, the foster

625

:

care mother, that you did that.

626

:

Told you couldn't fail.

627

:

You're destined for greatness.

628

:

And she was 100% right that you

were destined for greatness.

629

:

You hit greatness.

630

:

You continue to find greatness

and I am glad that I am able to

631

:

call you friend and I look forward

to hearing many more speeches.

632

:

'cause I know there's a lot more

creative juices flowing in speeches

633

:

that you're gonna give in the future.

634

:

And I I can't wait to see

you on a big stage one day.

635

:

Tremale: I appreciate that.

636

:

And it's just been a true honor and

privilege to count you as a friend.

637

:

So thank you so much for

everything and for having me today.

638

:

It's been great.

639

:

Doris: Thank you, Tramell.

640

:

Thank you for listening

or watching this episode.

641

:

If something from today's conversation

resonated with you, I'd love for you

642

:

to share this episode with someone

who might need it or take a moment

643

:

to reflect on what stood out for you.

644

:

You can find show notes wherever

you get your podcasts, and if you

645

:

enjoy the podcast, subscribing

or leaving a review helps more

646

:

people find these conversations.

647

:

Until next time, keep learning.

648

:

Stay curious and remember,

sometimes a small shift in

649

:

perspective can change everything.

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About the Podcast

DunnWise Perspectives
A podcast about resilience, mindset, and the stories that shape who we become. Hosted by Doris Dunn, DunnWise Perspectives shares real conversations with people who have faced challenges, found their turning point, and discovered a way forward.

About your host

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Doris Dunn

Doris Dunn is a business coach, speaker, and founder of DunnWise Consulting. With more than 30 years of experience in the insurance industry, she has built a career focused on learning and development, employee engagement, and helping individuals and teams reach their full potential.

Through her work, Doris helps business owners and leaders turn their ideas into clear strategies, guiding them from vision to action with a focus on mindset, accountability, and long-term success.

Doris is passionate about the role mindset plays in both personal and professional growth. Her own journey—marked by loss, resilience, and difficult life decisions—has shaped her perspective and deepened her commitment to helping others navigate challenges and move forward with confidence.

She is the host of DunnWise Perspectives, a podcast dedicated to sharing real stories of resilience, shifting mindsets, and the moments that shape who we become.